Madalitso Chipekwe on leading the way in agri-tech and making farming cool in Malawi

Madalitso Chipekwe and her university friend Hastings were hitchhiking when a stranger in a BMW changed their lives forever, telling them that agriculture graduates who refuse to farm are the reason Malawi is poor. That blunt conversation sparked Hastings and Mada to form Acades, where, today, they create sustainable livelihoods for youths and food security through skill develpment, financing and agri-tech. 

Despite friends dropping out along the way, parents questioning their choices, and supermarkets laughing at their tiny harvests, Madalitso and Hastings kept going, eventually rallying hundreds of young farmers into organised groups with real bargaining power. 

In this episode, Madalitso shares how Acades transforms the way young Malawians see farming, from something dirty and hopeless into a viable, even cool, path to prosperity, and how she's determined that Malawi won't miss the AI train the way it missed the Industrial Revolution.

Get Involved!
Learn more about Madalitso's work and how you can support her and Hastings to empower young Malawian farmers at justpeoples.org/leaders/madalitso

Transcript

Intro: Welcome to Why Give a Buck?, a podcast brought to you by Just Peoples. On Why Give a Buck, we chat with visionary leaders across Africa and Asia who are working to solve poverty in their local communities. We talk to them about their lives, their work, and what drives them to do the marvelous things they do.

Christey: We are so excited to be here today with Madalitso, the co-founder of Acades, an organisation that is feeding Malawians, employing Malawians and changing the nature of farming in Malawi. Madalitso is tackling youth unemployment and food insecurity while bringing cutting edge technology, proving that Malawi doesn't have to just keep up with the world's tech revolution, it can lead the way.

Johanna: Welcome, Madalitso. We are so excited to be talking to you today.

Madalitso: Thank you Christey and Johanna.

Johanna: I'd love to hear what you really love about living in Malawi, being from Malawi, and what your favourite things are.

Madalitso: Okay, let me just start. I'm a foodie. Food is one of the things that I love about Malawi. You were here, Christey and Johanna, so I should tell you that most of the food that we eat in Malawi, yet a lot of people don't know, but it's mostly organic. If it's goats, they're pasture raised. We have a lot of local chickens that are affordable as well. So I love the food and I also love the people. So we are called the warm heart of Africa. The people are very warm and very nice.

Christey: When we were leaving Malawi the Malawian immigration officer said, "Hello? How's life?" and I was like, oh my goodness. Thank you for asking. It's good. I had a really good stay in Malawi. I am feeling good. And she was like, "Then why are you leaving Malawi?" And I dunno. I dunno why I am leaving Malawi. I want to stay. And I felt like I was in this kind of dream because I was so shocked by a kind immigration officer. And then Jo was like, she has to leave because she has a son. And, oh yeah, I have a son. That's why. And she was like, okay, go well, enjoy your trip. It just wrapped up our whole trip so perfectly. Didn't it?

Johanna: It did, yeah. We knew that you were, yeah. But we didn't know that everybody was gonna be so beautifully warm. Yeah, it was wonderful.

Johanna: So Madalitso, Acades was born when you were hitchhiking with one of your university friends, Hastings.

Madalitso: Yes. We were at the same university. I did agriculture economics, and he did agriculture general. Hastings was already quite convinced that he wanted to do farming as a full-time career. For me, I was still not yet convinced. I studied economics, so, you know, in college economists were seen as the people that will run the country, would be in the offices, white collar job. We were the ones that everyone thought would be the successful ones. So, you know, we used to walk with our shoulders high in the university.

Christey: [Laughing]

Madalitso: So I wasn't yet convinced that I wanted to do farming. So we were going to see Hastings' farm. We were on the bus stop, waiting for buses and then a very nice car stopped by. It was a BMW. The guy was like, "Do you guys wanna get in?" So for us, you know, we had just graduated. If someone has stopped, it means it's something for free. So you didn't say no to something free and nice as well. We got in because we were like, oh my God, this is gonna be a free ride. So when we started off, he asked us, "What do you guys do?" I said, we have just graduated from Luanar College of Agriculture and we are now looking for jobs.

Christey: Like any job or a job in economics? A white collar, shoulders high job?

Madalitso: Yes. White collar in a suit. Oh, fancy, fancy jobs. Yeah. And the emotion just changed the moment we said that, because he was like, "Luanar College graduates, you guys are the reason why Malawi is poor. You are the reason why this country is poor."

Johanna: Whoa.

Madalitso: For context as well, I should say that in Malawi, at that time, universities were all sponsored by the government. So when you have the privilege to go to that university, it's like you're using part of taxpayer's money, because the government sponsored most of the universities. So he was like, "You know what, the government has spent so much money to train you guys, but yet, instead of you looking for jobs or doing the things that you were trained to do, farming, you end up looking for jobs in banks. You end up looking for jobs in the military. You end up looking for jobs anywhere else apart from farming. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves and you guys are the ones that make this country poor."

Johanna: It sounds like an awkward ride you picked up there.

Madalitso: Yes. The ride got awkward.

Johanna: I think you should have paid a couple of bucks and caught the bus.

Madalitso: Yeah. It was that time you'd feel that, oh my God, maybe we made a bad decision. Now we're being kidnapped. But then he continued to say, "You know what? I dropped out of primary school, and I'm a farmer. And you know what? The money that I make in six months, it'll take you guys two years to make the same money when you have a job."

Johanna: Whoa, really?

Madalitso: And then he said, "You guys should have been giving back to the community. You are the people that the government has trained to do farming as a science, but you guys never give back to the society. You are doing anything else but farming. You guys should be ashamed of yourself." And at that time that conversation was happening, it was also the time that unemployment in Malawi was very high. So after that conversation, we reached our spot. I was actually happy to say we are here. So we dropped off and I was like, "Hastings, you know what this guy said, and what you said about farming is right. This thing, let's do this thing. Let's try this. I want to try. So let's do it. Let's try."

Johanna: I'm so glad you tried.

Madalitso: Yeah.

Christey: So amazing, isn't it? That straight talking man who picked you up changed the trajectory of your life.

Madalitso: Ha ha. Yes, yes. So when we decided to start, we were like, okay, let's also tell our friends, maybe our friends would like to join us and do it with us as well. So then we were now six of us, and we got a one acre plot where we did onions, and then we did five acres of soy. We went to a supermarket, like, I think Walmart.

Johanna: Oh, wow. Yes. Yeah. So you went to the equivalent of a Walmart?

Madalitso: Yes, yes. We went to an equivalent of a Walmart to say, oh, we would like to sell our onions here. And they were like, "You know what? We cannot buy from you." So they were just brutal on it. We were like, why, why can't you buy from us? And they were like, "You know what? Us as a retail store, we are looking for ecosystem supply chain. So because our customers, when they want vegetables, they want to find them. So we look for consistent suppliers. But you, your onions, if you supply today and we finish your one acre onion tomorrow, you are not going to exist. You are not going to have onion. It means that we don't have that supply, so we cannot buy from you." And then we took the soya also, we went to processing companies and also companies that buy and just export the legume. So we were like, oh, we want good prices. We want a good price. The guy there, they laughed. They were like, "Okay guys, how much soya have you got?" Like, so they laughed. We were like, "Guys, with this quantity, you want a good price? You guys are joking." So they said, "You know what? Bring hundred tons. Bring 1,000 metric tons. We will talk. But you bring 30 bags here, you're saying you want a good price? What is that?" So we were so disappointed. Because of that, what happened is we ended up selling both the onions and also the soya to vendors, like middlemen. And the problem is that middlemen, they usually buy at a very low price.

Johanna: Yes.

Madalitso: So when we looked at the money that we made, we were like, can we survive on this? And because of that, three of my friends said, "You know what, I'm going to do my masters. I cannot continue this." Another one got a job. So it was me and Hastings. Now back, the two of us. That was the moment that when we reflected and we realised and saw that it was not only us that were doing farming in rural communities. There were also other young people that were doing it. What if we do it together? Maybe we can get the volumes and we can also get the consistency. So that was the idea. So we created a first group, and I think we were about 31. Yes. We were like, okay, let's work together in the group. And then that season, we trained them in what we knew. So one person in that group, he made about $250.

Johanna: Yeah.

Madalitso: And then it was news in the community because he had never touched such an amount of money. So he goes, oh, I was in this group. I made this money. I made this money. So it was like all over, all over the communities. And then we just saw groups of other young people coming, saying we want to join, we want to join. And then we saw that we had reached 200, then 300. So we were like, okay, people want to join, so this is important. And we had a discussion with one of the guys that work at National Youth Council, and he said, "You know what, what you're doing is exposing a need. There's a need for young people that your work is showing. So what if you open an organisation that supports young people because there's a gap in youth." So that's how we were born. It was not like we planned it.

Johanna: So you guys grew organically, like the food that your farmers grow in Malawi. That's beautiful.

Christey: And what is the state of farming at a family level in Malawi? Are most people subsistence farmers, so just able to take care of their own family's food needs? Or are they also selling their produce?

Madalitso: Yes, yes. They are usually subsistence. So they're doing production mostly just to meet their food needs. However, the challenge with that is the fact that they are able to produce food, but then they don't have the incomes now to buy other needs. For example, if a baby gets sick, if a child needs something for school, maybe they might need salt, they might need even some additional relish. So because they don't have that income, what happens is they end up selling the food.

Johanna: I see.

Madalitso: So that they get that income. So we are working a lot with young people and our work emphasises making agriculture a viable option for youth employment creation. And what we mean by that is, we want them to be able to earn enough incomes so that they can be able to have their basic needs. But then what we have seen is, from the young people that we have worked with, before we work with them, they feel that farming is not working. So the impression is, this year I worked so hard, but I only got, for example, maybe 200 kgs. And I was not able to feed my family throughout the year. We had some days that we ate, some days that we just slept without eating. But also I couldn't buy the things that I need. So for a lot of young people it's kind of frustrating. They see farming as something that is dirty. Something that will not take them anywhere. And that's the impression that makes people that even go to universities, like my story, to say, do they want to do farming? Because when we are growing up in these communities, we have seen farmers to be poor. But then one thing that we know is, it shouldn't be that way. It shouldn't be that way. We live in a land that has got limitless opportunities. If you've been to Malawi like you have, you will see that our lands are very flat.

Johanna: Yes.

Madalitso: Our land is very fertile. And then we have water. We have a lot of water close by. So when you look at this issue of efficiency, if we fix this issue of production, they would make more incomes. If young people can be able to incorporate technology to make things simple for them, they would make more incomes. And also, you know, we are bordered with countries like Zambia, where they're bordered with nine countries. We are close to South Africa, meaning that we have limitless market opportunities for the produce that we have. Our rice is known as the rice that has got a lot of flavour. Like if you take our rice in countries like Zimbabwe, it doesn't take so long to get finished. We live in a country where there's so much opportunity, but when we are finding young people in a state where they feel like agriculture is not working, when we find them in that state, the first thing that we do is a training on mindset transformation.

Johanna: Oooh, I love it.

Madalitso: Yes, yes. You know, we believe that change happens easily when someone believes that this is possible. And when people see examples to say, this one has done it, this one has done it, that's when you have the momentum to say, okay, yeah, I can do it. I can do it as well. So we work with young people that have succeeded. Like they are showing the money. Yeah, they're showing the money. "Guys, I made this, I made income and we would feed my family. You know what? This thing is working." Because young people listen to other young people that are successful. If you give them an example that is too far off, they'll say, oh no, maybe this is unreachable. We use community volunteers to do the mindset transformation training. The key factor is the visioning process. We go through a vision with them to say, okay, how does your five years from now look? And how do you get there? And is it possible? Who has ever done something like that? We go through a visioning process and it's exciting. I don't know, Johanna, if when you came you saw, but it's exciting when they are done, to see that people now have visions.

Johanna: Oh my, honestly, yes. It was one of my favourite moments of that whole trip to Malawi, sitting there and listening to the farmers share their visions for their communities and their businesses with us. And they pulled out this butcher paper, is that what you call it? And it just had mostly visual drawings and things, showing their five year plans and their strategies and their vision. And I mean, I've sat in pretty painful corporate meetings where you talk about your visions and stuff, and they're some of the best visions that I've seen, you know. And I was just like, how wonderful. How wonderful. Because that's something that everyone can work to. You say, where do I actually want to go with this? What change do we wanna see in our community? And then to map it out and then to know where you're going. Oh, how powerful. How powerful.

Madalitso: Yeah. Thank you.

Christey: This is so cool, Madalitso, and I'm really interested in the mindset changing part of it. You help them to believe that they can do more than what they currently believe they can do. So you change their minds to help them understand that more is possible for them. And also, are you kind of de-stigmatising farming and making it cool again?

Madalitso: Yes. That's what we do actually. We make farmers cool.

Christey: You make them ballers. So then you get the community volunteers. So those who have made their money, they have their gold chains...

Madalitso: Yes, yes.

Christey: ...they're listening to their music in the street saying you can be like me.

Madalitso: Ha. Yes.

Johanna: That's awesome.

Madalitso: Yeah, yeah. Now they have bought in to say, yeah, I want to do this, I have my vision. So now we provide them with agribusiness training. How do they budget, keeping records, and then production trainings as well. And now the biggest piece after training is the financing. Financing is the biggest piece, because after I had studied my farming and been in agriculture, I was shocked to look at the numbers with regards to the financing that is going in the sector. Across Malawi, the financing specifically at the smallholder farmer level is less than 2%. And when you look specifically at youth farmers, you see that the percentage is even less than 0.1%, because as young people, they are considered risky. And that farming is also considered a risky sector. So the puzzle is, this is the sector where a lot of young people are employed, yet there is less and less financing that is going there. But everyone knows that for any business to grow there's need for capital and there's need for cash flow. I have seen that there's a lot of training that goes in the sector, but few financing options for farmers. Very few, zero to none. So the implication of this is that most smallholder farmers are using what we call recycled seed because they can't afford improved seed.

Johanna: Ok.

Madalitso: If you look at the issue of improved seed or recycled seed, it's like, for example, if you have a woman that is giving birth year by year, she will not have the energy. It's the same as the seed. So farmers just recycle, and year after year, year after year, they're using the same seed. So the energy in the seed goes low and then the yields, the output, is now very low. For example, on average, when we are finding the farmer, they are getting a maximum of 200 kgs. But when we are able to give them tailored financing, they are able to double it. They're able to get 400, 1,200 kgs, even up to 2,000 kgs, just because of changing.

Johanna: Is that when they invest the money into the high yield seed?

Madalitso: Yes, yes. So there's a huge need for financing to ensure that farmers are able to increase the production. On one side there's an issue of the seed and on the other side there's also an issue of equipment. As I said, water in Malawi is very near. Like, you can dig and find water. And if there was really financing going to the sector, more farmers would even do irrigation farming, where they would be able to produce two, three times a year. But because financing never comes, most of the farmers depend on one season, which is the rainy season. We still depend on the rains. We are still at the mercy of rains. When rains fail, the whole nation, we go and pray. We are like, oh, let us pray for rains. Which is okay. Prayer is good, but also...

Johanna: Yep.

Madalitso: There's irrigation equipment that people have developed. Why not have it in place so that in case rain doesn't come, we are not at the mercy of rains?

Johanna: Absolutely.

Madalitso: When we don't have any rains it can create a catastrophe in the nation. So we are providing tailored financing. This is including the inputs and also the equipment, to ensure that farmers now are able to produce more. If you produce more, you are able to sell, and you're able to make income, and you are able to have enough food. What we have seen is, after the farmers are now in our programme, they're able to produce more. They're able now to have incomes. They're able to change the standard of living. For example, they're able to build houses. They are able to put iron roofs. They're able to show their friends that, you know, this is viable, this is viable. So looking at the impact that we want to see, we want this person to have enough food. We want this person to have enough income so that they can take their kid to the hospital. They can be able to pay school fees, able to pay for school uniform. They can have all those things that we need as human beings. They're simply basic needs. Everyone just has to have them. It should not be something that people should struggle to do. I believe that the youth of Malawi are the ones that will transform. I see a vibrant youth driving development in Malawi. And we are getting there. We are getting there. Yeah. We have seen that the ripple effects of farmers increasing their income is farmers are able to even buy additional assets. Apart from buying irrigation equipment, farmers are even able to buy a motorbike. Apart from them just using it as a ride, other people use it as a taxi business, so they employ someone to drive it whilst they're doing farming. They also have a taxi business as a sideline. Also what we are seeing is that they're able to even build shops, like real estate, where they're able to have groceries, sell things. And that's where we are saying that if rural communities have capital and they're able to grow the agribusinesses, they can be able to transform the communities. It is simply how development works.

Johanna: And tell us about the work that you've been doing recently in bringing artificial intelligence technology to farmers to support their productivity.

Madalitso: In Malawi, we missed the industrial revolution. We are still years and years still trying to catch up. I came to realise it the time I visited Italy. We visited a museum. And the hand tools that we use for farming were in the museum.

Johanna: What, as in like, this is what they used to use for farming, like long ago in history?

Madalitso: So they were showing us that we used to use these hand tools. There were sickles, there were, yeah, just different tools. Even the ox cart, displaying it in the museum like that. I was like, oh my God. Okay, this is what you used to use. So like, we are years behind. We are a hundred years behind civilisation? Is that what you're saying? Yeah. So yeah, it was really, it was really painful. And then when I came back, looking at how things are being done at the moment, to say, when are we catching up? Are we catching up in 10 years? Are we catching up in 20 years? And the feeling that we are not even catching up. Things are even advancing and we are still trying to catch up. We're still trying to catch up on feeding ourselves. We have countries where there's too much food, but us, we are struggling just to feed ourselves. So when the AI came out, that feeling kind of popped also to say, are we also going to play catch up with AI? Are we going to be left a hundred years behind again with AI? Is it going to be the same reality, just like we missed the industrial revolution train, we're going to miss the AI train? And with my colleague, we were like, no. You know what? We are determined to be those people that will make sure farmers specifically don't miss it. We don't miss it.

Johanna: Yes.

Madalitso: So when the wave of AI came in and we started using tools like ChatGPT, looking at how it made everything simple for us, we started having this discussion in our office to say, you know, AI is able to make things so simple for us, but why not also the farmers? And for me it has been a general feeling to say, why do we want farmers to do everything? We want farmers to make the business plan. We want farmers to do commercialisation, for them to grow their income. We want them to do a market research. We want them to do everything. But assuming we just let them do what they know best, that is the production side of it, and have other areas where they could use other tools to help them with that. Wouldn't that be better? And that's when we started discussing, let's do this, let's incorporate AI in our programming so that our farmers are able to use it for various purposes. So that includes weather information. But even issues of climate. We want to know, when is it better to plant? Do we plant today? Do we plant tomorrow? Do we plant next week? If farmers can get that updated information. I just go on the AI and ask it. Okay, when are we able to get the rain? Which one is ideal, but contextualised? The way we started thinking of AI is, how do we make sure that we contextualise it? One, to ensure that it's speaking the local language, because a majority of our population speaks Chichewa. But also not for it to give general responses, but to give responses in a Malawi setting, to say, looking at Malawi, this is what you can do, this is what you can do. So that's how we came up with the idea of the AI farmer app, that is used to really give farmers updated weather information, updated market information. It also helps them to develop their business, their planning process, their business plan, but in local context, in local language. And the idea behind it is just to say, how do we make these processes simple, as simple as possible for the farmers, so that they focus on the efficiency side of it, on the production side of it.

Johanna: Yes. Oh, I love that. I love that. Because that's just so important and especially in context. And as you say, expecting, if someone has been a farmer for their whole life and generally in subsistence farming, then expecting them to suddenly have skills as if they've been to business school and things like that as well. So to take all of that kind of admin and structural stuff away and support them in that way, it feels like such a game changer.

Madalitso: Yes. That opportunity that AI is bringing, we should not miss it. Actually, we believe we can lead. We can lead how our farmers are able to use AI. People can learn from Malawi.

Johanna: Totally.

Madalitso: Yes, yes. That's kind of the sentiment that I had when I travelled to Italy, just to see our tools in the museum.

Johanna: Yeah. Wow. Okay. And I love that you talk about, you know, that you can be the ones leading the way, because that's how I see you. And you know how passionate I am about equitable access to technology. And when we came to visit you in July and your team and your farmers showed us the AI farmer app on those iPads, I was just like, this is absolutely wonderful. We were all like, whohoo, what happens if we do this and touch this and do that? And it's just so exciting. And that's one of the real, I guess, strengths that you guys have working with young people, because I mean they just are the digital natives, right? They, or they can be digital natives.

Madalitso: Yes.

Johanna: They love it.

Madalitso: They're excited about it. They're excited.

Johanna: Yeah. Totally. And I love that you guys are really coming into this with that mindset. This attitude of, how can we just harness this to solve these really, really crucial problems that we're having in our communities, in our country, and using these tools to do so. It really, oh, I mean, it's a bit over said, this idea of leapfrogging, but I feel like you're leapfrogging, you know.

Johanna: Could you talk a little bit about how the farmers that you work with are able to connect to markets, to sell their products? Like, is that done at a local level? Or like, where are they selling their products?

Madalitso: The marketing, now how it happens is we still have continued that model. Because young people form groups, and these are accountability groups where they do the visioning, they receive the trainings, but also they use it for marketing. So they aggregate the commodity together and then sell to the market. So because of those volumes, we are able to get, like, markets trust us. We just have a call to say, okay, there's this produce, and markets are able to abide because it's like organised. Yeah.

Johanna: Wonderful, wonderful. And so now you've got some bargaining power. Madalitso, so good.

Madalitso: Yes. Now we have bargaining power. Now they call us. "Please, please sell to us." You know, like, now it's "please."

Johanna: Oh.

Christey: Now they're asking you. That's so cool. So are they giving you a good price?

Madalitso: Yes, if they're saying sell to us, it means that I'm waiting on the bargaining. Okay, so how much are you buying? Let's talk numbers.

Christey: Lucky you did economics.

Johanna: Yeah. Exactly. So yeah, I bet your economics is coming in seriously handy now. And also learning the lessons along the way with your knapsack of onions, taking along to Walmart, and really understanding from the grassroots what these kind of challenges are. It's really cool. I love it.

Madalitso: Yeah. You know, at that moment, we never realised how that discussion would change our life. But I also realised how that failure, for example, to get in market, how that loss, losing our peers that we were together, and colleagues saying, we can't do it with you. Because at that moment, those things were painful. Like, they were painful.

Johanna: Oh, I bet.

Madalitso: Because we were like, oh my God, maybe they're saying the truth. And you know, being in farming was a thing that even your parents would say, what are you doing? You went to college. You are wasting your life. I remember my parents, everyone at my house, they really just thought that maybe I'm just playing around. And then Hastings sharing the same experiences to me, where the father said, "But you wasted your time." So when we were the two of us, it was better. But you know what? We believe in this. There is a lot of opportunity. And you know, that time, Malawi was importing almost even onions from South Africa. But these are jobs for young people, that if we could just produce within the country, we can have our young people having employment. So we were importing a lot of things that we could produce ourselves. It was that conviction to say, but the opportunity is there.

Johanna: Oh, how exciting.

Christey: It is so amazing. And doesn't it seem so ridiculous that farming is, or was, until you came along, so stigmatised, when it's so essential to human health and wellbeing and life in general, like, to grow food. Isn't it kind of crazy that people were like, what are you doing? You've gotta do something with your life. You know? Like you were getting into a dead end street, when you're literally getting into the work that sustains humanity through nutrients. It's blowing my mind. Agriculture is just so fundamental. So I absolutely love that, you know, not only are you making it cool, but you're getting so many people involved, getting them to grow organic vegetables and collectively get bargaining power against the big dogs. It's such a satisfying story, your one, and the magical moment of that guy, that cutthroat BMW driver telling you straight that you were contributing to making Malawi poor. And now you are contributing to making Malawi rich, in many ways, rich and healthy.

Madalitso: Yes. Yeah. The way the story has unfolded for me is really also a shock. I never thought, because now there's no discussion about youth in agribusiness in Malawi without inviting Acades. We are now the experts with regards to youth in agribusiness. With regards to financing, I now sit on the board of the Malawi Microfinance Network, and my role really is to talk about youth issues. I was also part of the development of the Malawi Vision 2063. So I was co-chairing the youth co-advisory panel, and we were the ones that were tasked to ensure that the views of the young people are in the vision.

Johanna: It's wonderful. Yes, yes.

Madalitso: Yes. Yeah, it's something that I never imagined. Like, we also got the presidential award, I think two years ago. Yes, yes. For the impact. Yeah, for the impact. It's so exciting to see that people are recognising that, you know what, agriculture is not a dead end, but actually this is a vital sector. Because, you know, there is nothing like food. There is nothing like food. Everyone needs to eat. So we are the most important people in society.

Johanna: Try taking your jobs, AI. Good luck with that!

Johanna: Oh, I've loved this conversation.

Christey: Thank you so much for speaking with us and sharing about the ways that you're getting Malawi and youth excited and employed and nutritious and healthy. It's really so inspiring and I want to grow vegetables myself and become part of your movement. And I just love that you are putting the future out of the boomers' hands and back into the youth so that...

Johanna: Sorry to all the boomers listening.

Christey: We do love boomers. But we also love it when youth have control over their own futures as well, especially with climate change and everything that's happening. So you're doing amazing work and we're so inspired and excited to support you.

Madalitso: Thank you Christey and Johanna. I'm always very excited to talk to you guys. I really love our discussion.

Christey: When we went to visit you, you let us plant very special little trees. I planted an avocado tree and I was very excited about it. Do you know how it's growing?

Madalitso: Yes, they're going very well, actually.

Christey: Love it.

Madalitso: I think Johanna's died. I'm joking.

Johanna: You promised me you'd look after it. Did it die?

Madalitso: I'm joking.

Johanna: Oh, I was outraged for a minute there.

Madalitso: I'm joking.

Outro: Why Give A Buck? is brought to you by Just Peoples, an international nonprofit dedicated to ending global poverty. You can learn more about Just Peoples and the visionary leaders we chat to at justpeoples.org.